10:34:34	 From  Joanne Hardman : hallo all from the tip of Africa for as long as I have electricity
10:35:10	 From  AYDIN BAL : Hello!
10:36:06	 From  Elina Lampert-Shepel : I have my colleague from UNESP, Brazil, Suely Melo, visiting me in NYC…:-
10:47:48	 From  Beth Ferholt : Yes!
10:56:17	 From  Michael Cole : The Tatars
10:56:41	 From  Joanne Hardman : Sorry  no electricity
10:57:08	 From  Peter Smagorinsky : Timothy Snyder, a historian of W. Europe and E. Soviet Union, is excellent at outlining these narratives.
11:02:07	 From  Elina Lampert-Shepel : I wonder if it is important for others to distinguish mediational means from cultural ( psychological tools)?
11:04:53	 From  AYDIN BAL : Could someone share the article Dr. Wertch is referring to ?
11:05:34	 From  Michael Cole : Yes,I can   but later  lets collect up a few key new reading?
11:06:52	 From  Peter Smagorinsky : Jim has also used Burke's notion of terministic screens, that is, lenses through which life and events are viewed and understood.
11:07:13	 From  Maria Falikman : There is a ‘schema-narrative-habit’ triangle, and I would really love to learn more about how these three are interrelated.
11:07:31	 From  Maria Falikman : It is still a bit unclear from the paper.
11:11:30	 From  Andrew Babson   to   Michael Cole(Direct Message) : Hi Mike, wanted to confirm my doc got to you OK? Thanks.
11:11:58	 From  Michael Cole   to   Andrew Babson(Direct Message) : +++
11:12:50	 From  AYDIN BAL : What is the unit of analysis in collective memory studies/analyses?
11:12:58	 From  Rod Parker-Rees : Schema, habit and narrative all enable us to anticipate the future - narrative also allows us to anticipate what others will anticipate/expect. Knowing what to expect allows us to focus our attention on what is UNEXPECTED in any situation.
11:14:09	 From  Michael Cole   to   Andrew Babson(Direct Message) : Post it here if it fits the context
11:16:33	 From  Jasmine Ma (she/her) : love this question, meixi
11:16:36	 From  Lauren Vogelstein (she/her) : ^^^
11:16:44	 From  Meixi : Appreciate you sharing the question Mike!
11:20:05	 From  Peter Smagorinsky : Snyder
11:20:28	 From  Peter Smagorinsky : Snyder's Road to Unfreedom addresses Jim's point on Putin extremely well.
11:23:02	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : “Active” and “cognitive tool use” … I am not sure if this response suites some of what I have seen of such habits in play ... imaginary characters and forces creating habits with children and teachers make me think that smaller group habits can help us to think further using Meixi's question.
11:24:14	 From  Rod Parker-Rees : Children can be helped to develop the habit of being open to changing their habits.
11:24:51	 From  Maria Falikman : A learned tool use is an operation in terms of the activity theory, and operations are automatized (they are habits is James’ sense)
11:27:06	 From  Meixi : I appreciate that thought Rod - I think that children already come into the world with particular and needed orientations to the world that we as adult might need to learn and remember from. And the question is how we continually attune ourselves to being open and reflective of our own habits and kinds of relations we hold.
11:27:34	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : Children and their appreciation of ways that the distinction between animate and not animate is incomplete, can help us to see how we can change habit making through care -- perhaps, just thinking.
11:28:33	 From  Meixi : Yes Beth! And observing and attuning to those!
11:28:33	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : That was in response to Rod -- I wrote at the same time : ) .
11:28:44	 From  Meixi : Same thoughts!!
11:30:03	 From  Elina Lampert-Shepel : I apologize , but have to leave. I sincerely hope there will be a recording. Thank you!
11:30:29	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : I use the word listening and think of adults being raised by children, this comes from early childhood education and care literature, and preschool teachers, but I love these two words you suggest, thank you.
11:33:23	 From  Andrew Babson : I have a few ideas/questions about how the theoretical framework might fit or not with some others. Thanks.
11:33:40	 From  Maria Falikman : Kahneman & Treisman’s, 1984 paper is just about «fast»
11:35:05	 From  Francine Smolucha : Schema is not necessarily verbal, it can refer to sensory motor activity. Narrative introduces verbal guidance, structuring of experience.
11:36:04	 From  David Kirshner : Jim mentioned our capacity to be critical of our own  discourse community. The implication I'm reading into that suggestion is that critical thinking is a native capacity of the human information processing mechanism. The runs counter to the view of critical stance as a cultural practice.
11:38:03	 From  Peter Smagorinsky : in 1996 or earlier, Mike called them cultural schemata--not just in the brain, but distributed and appropriated.
11:38:24	 From  Maria Falikman : Mike, Aydin has his hand up all the time, it is just hardly noticeable against the background.
11:40:39	 From  Francine Smolucha : Sparks, Brincat,&Aistrope "Imagination and International Relations" International Relations Quarterly 2022.
11:42:27	 From  Rod Parker-Rees : Is 'mental time travel' a form of anticipation? We use what we know to imagine what might happen in future and knowing what other people know and expect plays a big part in this. Whe we are among 'people like us' it is much easier to anticipate what people will do and say and how they will react - and this is much easier and more comfortable!
11:42:36	 From  Maria Falikman : I would comment later, too, if I may.
11:43:40	 From  Francine Smolucha : Vygotsky distinguishes between memory as reproduct6ive imagination and creativity as combinatory imagination so how does creative imagination reframe collective narratives
11:45:27	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : I think what Jim said on time, is where this talk and the discussion Francine is leading, meet.  I think that where memory and imagination crash and smoosh together, is at the start and end of life.  So I wonder if care has a role in the process of such habit forming that we miss, when we don't focus enough on emotion, and the devil-in-the details quality of care.
11:47:52	 From  AYDIN BAL : Thank you Jim!
11:48:23	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : A hunch.  I am thinking in how-to way at this point in the conversation: How to fold that paper differently after the first fold.  Can we learn from those times when the paper defies repeating the fold.
11:51:31	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : How can we not think the narratives are true? I am thinking of Eva Hesse and surrealism ... Jim what do you think, how?
11:52:43	 From  Przemysław Gąsiorek : Asking questions is the beginning of development, the beginning of higher mental functions, and the beginning of going beyond the schema. The question is interest in the other person / society. Asking questions always marks a new stage in children's development.
11:52:51	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : There are spaces full of narrative and habbit making where people are not thinking the narratives are true: what do they look like?
11:52:58	 From  Rod Parker-Rees : Might being genuinely interested in how other people fold the paper be a good start? - and something we can encourage in young children
11:54:17	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : It might be, but how to foster interest? I am not sure that's the right place to start.  How to study? : )
11:54:34	 From  Larissa Mazuchelli (d)ela : I had the same question, Andrew, about ideologies, not only in terms of macrostructure, but micro as well and their interactions. In Discourse Analysis we talk about discourse as memory (collective & individual)
11:56:03	 From  Rod Parker-Rees : Beth, (some) adults can model being interested in other ways of thinking/doing things
11:56:39	 From  Przemysław Gąsiorek : Searching for another person is a basic nervous reflex, just like asking questions. There are people in whom it disappears, which is why the pattern is a kind of cognitive autism.
11:57:07	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : True, Rod!
11:57:21	 From  Patricia Martinez Alvarez : A graphic model will be very helpful to understand the relation between concepts and C H theory
11:58:25	 From  Peter Smagorinsky : Jonathan Haidt, The Righteous Mind
11:59:49	 From  Francine Smolucha : Look at successful conflict resolution between bitter enemies like in Northern Ireland, and between the Chechens and Russians under Kadyrov & Putin. How was the narrative changed, reframed? My son's thesis paper was on Chechnya - Shannon suggested it be published but he could share it prepublication.
12:00:44	 From  Francine Smolucha : Need to look at role of pretend play in learning
12:00:59	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : ++
12:01:04	 From  Meixi : I keep returning to the idea of holding multiplicities - and how we might learn to hold multiple realities or even weave across multiplicities to imagine differently. If we only imagine with our past, lived experiences that might be a little limiting. We will only imagine the same kinds of birthday parties forward. Maybe listening, observing, learning from other ways to celebrate birthdays can help us imagine other kinds of celebrations, other kinds of futures. It requires a different orientation though - like so many of you all are mentioning here. My brain is working!
12:01:08	 From  Andrew Babson : Surely there are narratives which are not meant to be taken as true?
12:02:00	 From  Meixi : In fact many, many stories is what makes memories rich 🙂
12:02:03	 From  Andrew Babson : and a key function of memory is to provide a Self!
12:02:11	 From  Francine Smolucha : Need to look at pretend play in narrative building and framing new imaginary situations; and attachment and empathy.
12:03:33	 From  Meixi : I so appreciate this conversation but have to run. Thank you Dr. Cole for organizing and Dr. Wertsch and all of you for this stimulating conversation!
12:03:39	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : Yes, how to foster this listening, observing and learning is the question that interests me.  I think it happens in play.  I think play is to do with love, so back to emotion.
12:03:56	 From  Meixi : ^^ Yes Beth!
12:04:57	 From  Larissa Mazuchelli (d)ela : Thank you for this lovely conversation. I have another meeting :) Um abraço!
12:06:00	 From  Jasmine Ma (she/her) : I have to hop off too, thank so much for this!
12:06:14	 From  Patricia Martinez Alvarez : Yes, aspects of emotion and how things might be made more or less relevant to us, or that, for whatever reason stay with us for a longer time. Cognitive misers but some things stick because they are made critical for us through the collective
12:06:17	 From  Grace A. Chen (she/her) : i need to hop off, but thank you so much for this opportunity!
12:09:29	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : Yes, Patricia, I see in this labor of making such a collective the potential to respond to the dilemma, which is how to fold the paper another way.
12:10:05	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : Maybe this is Art, for Vygotsky??
12:11:55	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : I am interested in the fact that as a queer person I needed both hearing some narratives, and imagining a future self who would offer me “pretend" narratives: This happened through people (not queer people) listening to me... Hmmm.
12:14:18	 From  Patricia Martinez Alvarez : I have to hop off now. Thank you for this very interesting discussion. I will for sure join any others that come about!
12:16:30	 From  Andrew Babson : I think the legal metaphor is great and adds what I think is a necessary patina of “true account of the facts”
12:16:40	 From  Francine Smolucha : There are tools developed by Snow & Benford using Frame Theory that includes narratives: terminology Frame conflict (narrative) conflict, bridging, salience, etc
12:16:44	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : Thank you so much for this wide-ranging but also concentrated and inspiring talk.  Thank you Mike and Jim.  Many people will be inspired when it is on CP, too.
12:16:49	 From  Beth Ferholt (she/her) : I have to go!
12:17:21	 From  Rod Parker-Rees : Bruner made a really interesting connection with Statute law and case law - 'facts' and 'stories'
12:17:45	 From  Andrew Babson : Nice pick, Rod!
12:19:15	 From  MARIANA ACHUGAR DIAZ : Thank you very much for the conversation
12:19:17	 From  AYDIN BAL : Thank you Jim, Mike and dear CHAT friends